tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4149957315810348152.post6522020522055371510..comments2024-01-01T00:45:41.758+00:00Comments on Wishful thinking in medical education: Facebook and educators- "There be dragons!"Anne Marie Cunninghamhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05289974924032448531noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4149957315810348152.post-73386345327192591922013-07-03T11:50:10.742+01:002013-07-03T11:50:10.742+01:00Thanks Anne Marie. Great discussion for this post....Thanks Anne Marie. Great discussion for this post. I agree with you in that social platforms understand better how the student mind works even ours. I also prefer to be a resident in the social learning space than in a bore VLE. I have experimented with my pre and postgraduated courses facebook pages https://www.facebook.com/pages/Unidad-de-Reumatolog%C3%ADaHUN-y-Reumatologos-del-Caribe/135590143144028?fref=ts and google communities. and also twitter interaction. My conclusions; 1. They like it 2. The prefer google plus (searching features and multimedia posts) 3. It works better combining formats (Multimodal use of social learning platforms) 4. Pregrad students much better than postgrad students ( we have more residents now) 5.Minimall skills needed from students and of course teachers. Understanding new language. Carvicahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18370788792379755565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4149957315810348152.post-90676999116456860742012-05-24T10:50:10.999+01:002012-05-24T10:50:10.999+01:00Thanks Simon,
I think Facebook does have differen...Thanks Simon,<br /><br />I think Facebook does have different social spaces. A group is a space. A page is a space. My friend's or my wall are spaces. The only part of me that I bring to a public page or a group is that which is my public profile. That's available to anyone with a Facebook account so I don't see the logic of setting up a separate FB profile to bring to those spaces.<br />Even if I were to set up a 'professional' Facebook profile (and I mean profile here not a page) I would feel uncomfortable connecting with students using it. Why would I want to be FB friends with a student no matter what account I was using? <br />I disagree that Facebook lacks granularity. It's just that many of us don't use it. This student suggests that setting up a 'limited' profile is one of the options to use when a teacher requests that you use FB for educational purposes. http://www.fastweb.com/student-life/articles/3418-should-you-be-facebook-friends-with-your-teachers<br /><br />I think that Benedict and Kelly's interaction about 'pretending to be someone else' is very interesting. What Benedict writes about modifying behaviour and language, fits with 'Goffman 101'. But he see setting up another profile altogether as being a step beyond this, as 'pretending to be someone else'.<br /><br />It's fascinating. I completely respect other people's choices n how to use any tool. But I think it is worthwhile trying to tease out what lies behind different choices- especially if we want to talk through these issues with others who might be taking first steps.<br /><br />Thanks both,<br />AMAnne Marie Cunninghamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05289974924032448531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4149957315810348152.post-30561331952068660802012-05-24T10:06:18.946+01:002012-05-24T10:06:18.946+01:00Hi Kelly - that's most interesting. Although I...Hi Kelly - that's most interesting. Although I haven't felt the need to go as far as creating a separate profile, my trust in Facebook has been eroded by privacy changes which have been confusing and quite opaque. But I hadn't really seen the "profile" in FB as analogous to a physical space, more as an identity that I bring to those spaces, eg. a group, an event, etc. Of course, to some degree it fulfils both functions...one of the things about these tools is I never stop discovering people using them in ways that simply hadn't occurred to me. Your point about the fluidity of identity strikes a chord; again this is not something Facebook does well but the developments in Google+ with circle-level granularity for profile elements are an improvement. This reflects that there are common elements in my online identity, as well as some aspects of myself that I share only with one group or another. There's still room for improvement... But this is of interest to me because I want to present more than just two "identities" (or rather, facets of my identity) with lots of overlaps.<br /><br />Trust is perhaps the key in this. However well developed a multi-faceted profile might be, if Facebook or Google can't be trusted, of course complete separation is the only route.Simon Woodhttp://simonwood.infonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4149957315810348152.post-81356732949472362212012-05-23T22:42:13.004+01:002012-05-23T22:42:13.004+01:00Hi Kelly,
Thanks for your comment though I suspect...Hi Kelly,<br />Thanks for your comment though I suspect we are talking about using Facebbok with students in quite different ways.<br />Do you encourage students to set up second accounts to connect with you as well? I understand that is against FB's terms and conditions to have two separate personal profiles, although a personal profile and professional page would be acceptable of course.<br />I want to explore how a personal profile on Facebook can be used in semi-professional ways. After all the self-organising students are not, as far as I know, setting up several profiles. I've used the face that I'm using my own personal profile to explore with students how their own personal profile appears through others through the use of screencasts.<br />Thanks again,<br />AMAnne Marie Cunninghamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05289974924032448531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4149957315810348152.post-82297805560871157332012-05-23T20:10:39.400+01:002012-05-23T20:10:39.400+01:00Well. I have watched and read with intrigue the di...Well. I have watched and read with intrigue the dialogue here and on your earlier post about the use of Facebook in learning activities, be they student-led or faculty or institution-supported. I wanted to comment on the thread here about setting up two profiles and why one would do this. Well I do. I have a personal account for "family and close-friends" and I have a professional account, I use to connect with "professional peers, students, business professionals etc." <br /><br />A question of Trust! To respond to the question from Simone and Anne Marie "why" when the digital social context that is Facebook provides the functionality and settings to filter, sort and list "connections?" ... I don't trust Facebook to maintain those settings and functionality as the platform is developed. I see them and use them as spaces with different purposes, uses and types of member interaction ... Like I see the "university cafeteria" and "my own dinning room at home" as different social spaces, although I eat and entertain in both. <br /><br />A question of user-choice! To respond to Benedict Warner about this having "unprofessional undertones" ... a personal account doesn't = unprofessional, nor does it mean one 'pretends to be someone else. Our identities are naturally fluid as based on who we are interacting with, where, why, and through what means. This is Goffman 101. For some (such as me) this translates to a users choice in how they set their own boundaries between a personal/private social self versus as a professional/public social self in digital social contexts. It is also a users-choice in how, where and why they connect to me (if they so wish). <br /><br />A question of respect! I think what is of utmost importance in all discussions about how "people" use and consider the use of digital social contexts - in work, learning and living, that we respect user-choice and wherein variability in access occurs, "we" adapt ourselves to accommodate. For example, my parents don't use Facebook, and are those not connected on my personal-family profile. But they doesn't mean I stop calling or sharing the same information with them, I just do it in a different way to meet their needs. <br /><br />After all, the only thing any of us can ever control ... is ourselves and our interactions with others. :-)Kelly Pagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08892863492290253406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4149957315810348152.post-68250251770609432552012-05-03T17:17:44.705+01:002012-05-03T17:17:44.705+01:00Thank you Anne Marie for this article, very though...Thank you Anne Marie for this article, very thought-provoking.<br />At the risk of sounding harsh, my view is that students don't use VLEs for anything that they don't absolutely need simply because most VLEs are badly designed and are not adapted to the students' needs. And that needs to change, because education is increasingly going to happen online.<br /><br />More on that here: http://jrduboc.wordpress.com/2012/05/03/vle_suck/Jean-remy Dubochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16544409282131628715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4149957315810348152.post-70842913287335857442012-05-02T10:43:14.000+01:002012-05-02T10:43:14.000+01:00Hi Anne,
I am fully agree with you that facebook ...Hi Anne,<br /><br />I am fully agree with you that facebook is not only for making friend and having chatting with them. We can use Facebook for learning purpose too. We can set a group in facebooks and share or knowledge with each other.We can also like the most of educational pages from where we can get information and educate ourself with that..<br /> <br /><br /><a href="http://thelawyermichigan.com/" rel="nofollow"> Michigan DUI </a>Michigan DUIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06207674753588142759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4149957315810348152.post-90342154629712845812012-05-01T00:00:04.032+01:002012-05-01T00:00:04.032+01:00Thanks Keith. As I say I think that the group I...Thanks Keith. As I say I think that the group I've set up will be a great area to explore these topics with students. <br />AMAnne Marie Cunninghamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05289974924032448531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4149957315810348152.post-60706961923856913522012-04-30T23:58:35.351+01:002012-04-30T23:58:35.351+01:00Hello George,
Thanks for your comment and the goog...Hello George,<br />Thanks for your comment and the google + discussion. I agree that the characterisation of Facebook as student social space is interesting. Students are signing up to the Facebook group I set up at the weekend pretty quickly so they don't seem to be so worried about this. I think in general that students are a lot more sophisticated than we often seem to suppose they are. I love learning from them!<br />AMAnne Marie Cunninghamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05289974924032448531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4149957315810348152.post-62565054714328489972012-04-30T23:50:02.638+01:002012-04-30T23:50:02.638+01:00Ok! So the issue wouldn't be that Facebook was...Ok! So the issue wouldn't be that Facebook was an institutionally approved ghetto, or that it was a social space, just that it was Facebook. I can respect that educators are reluctant about legitimising Facebook. I'll let you know how this works out for me.Anne Marie Cunninghamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05289974924032448531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4149957315810348152.post-49524364100369528492012-04-30T23:16:13.889+01:002012-04-30T23:16:13.889+01:00A quick thought on this - it strikes me (at first ...A quick thought on this - it strikes me (at first glance, at least) that creating a personal and a professional account, separately, has distinctly unprofessional undertones. It is as though unprofessional activities are acceptable, so long as they are unseen.<br /><br />I think I prefer your language of boundaries. I create boundaries between my personal life and my work life, but it's still the same me. If I am (hypothetically) to use Facebook in a formal capacity - for example, participating in an educational group which includes professors etc. as well as other students - I will modify my behaviour and language for that setting, but I won't pretend to be someone else.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15077772494431214457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4149957315810348152.post-73367127898454173922012-04-30T21:44:52.538+01:002012-04-30T21:44:52.538+01:00Yes, it is possible to set up a group on facebook,...Yes, it is possible to set up a group on facebook, it can be a private group, invite only, invisible to everyone else.<br /><br />But, and it is a big but. Would you wish to be connected to the people in the real world, have access to all your personal information, why then in the virtual world?<br /><br />Facebook is a walled garden. Yes, you can have access to the delights within, but to gain access there is a price to pay, you gain entry by selling your digital soul at the gate.<br /><br />cont ...<br /><br />http://keithpp.wordpress.com/2012/04/30/walled-gardens-and-private-groups-within/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4149957315810348152.post-7612547309902741722012-04-30T20:04:16.761+01:002012-04-30T20:04:16.761+01:00Thanks for the info on Group. Looking forward to s...Thanks for the info on Group. Looking forward to see how you like it comparing to a page.Ali R. Jalalihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00102977084435645123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4149957315810348152.post-65782937049045251062012-04-30T16:10:56.644+01:002012-04-30T16:10:56.644+01:00Anne-Marie, this is an exciting topic. The aspect ...Anne-Marie, this is an exciting topic. The aspect I'm most interested in at the moment is the faculty concern that we're "invading students' space" by using Facebook (or other unofficial social media) for academic purposes. Apparently that used to be true in the early days of Facebook/MySpace, but now the expectation is that everybody's on Facebook. So you're not invading just by showing up and being yourself (a teacher). There was some research from UCLA's Higher Education Research Institute, around 2009 I believe. But it escapes me so if anyone knows for sure, that's better than my anecdotal version. It may have been from their surveys of new freshmen. All that said, people aren't as privacy-savvy as they could be and Facebook's bobbles don't help allay those concerns, so being clear with students as to what you will or won't do is important.<br /><br />Thanks for clarifying that faculty and students do NOT have to be Friends to interact on Facebook. I found in the old version of Groups (a couple of semesters back) that students just needed to request to join my Group and no other interaction was necessary to participate. This mistaken belief about friending is a show-stopper for some. BTW I only friend former students, and then only after they graduate, and it has to come from them. I am aware that some are FB friends with active students so I do temper my personal presence a little, but not much.<br /><br />(George Station on Google+)harmonygritzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05576466590942226849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4149957315810348152.post-63704499896375590822012-04-30T09:29:42.779+01:002012-04-30T09:29:42.779+01:00But if you're using Facebook to support learni...But if you're using Facebook to support learning and students opt out, then they are disadvantaging themselves. Some of my students choose to like the MicrobiologyBytes page on Facebook, but that is unrelated to any course I teach and the same information is also available though other channels - I'm not supporting learning on their courses directly.AJ Cannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02256258076753792133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4149957315810348152.post-88891999636536700642012-04-30T00:20:24.977+01:002012-04-30T00:20:24.977+01:00Thank you @arjalali for sharing your page. I wish ...Thank you @arjalali for sharing your page. I wish you all the very best with this. Just for your information, you don't have to be friends with someone to receive group notifications. <br /><br />I have used a page in similar way to you in the past. The group is a new experience and I will be sure to share how it works out.<br /><br />AMAnne Marie Cunninghamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05289974924032448531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4149957315810348152.post-90298369151614331782012-04-30T00:13:35.993+01:002012-04-30T00:13:35.993+01:00Great post Anne Marie.
I have a Facebook page for ...Great post Anne Marie.<br />I have a Facebook page for my class:<br />https://www.facebook.com/iAnatomie<br />I didn't use FB "Groups" bc with FB Page students don't have to be my "Friend" to receive the News Feed,<br />All the course related info is also discussed in class and/or emailed to them. (So having FB is NOT mandatory)<br />I also use it to post interesting articles, videos, photos, polls, etc. which have nothing to do with the class but may interest them.<br />@arjalaliAli R. Jalalihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00102977084435645123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4149957315810348152.post-21957148456217180122012-04-29T20:49:10.972+01:002012-04-29T20:49:10.972+01:00Many thanks @heloukee :)
You've said much bet...Many thanks @heloukee :)<br /><br />You've said much better in a few hundred words what I attempted to say in nearly 1800!<br /><br />Here's to open conversations!<br /><br />AMAnne Marie Cunninghamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05289974924032448531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4149957315810348152.post-78693621439759939502012-04-29T20:46:38.197+01:002012-04-29T20:46:38.197+01:00Hello Damian,
The short answer is that I can'...Hello Damian,<br /><br />The short answer is that I can't answer your question about whether students using Facebook to networks disadvantages those students who don't have accounts. But if it does then what can we do? Try and make everyone use another space? We certain;y can't stop Facebook being used. <br /><br />Perhaps we can have (as @heloukee says below) open and honest conversations with students and help them to make their own informed decisions.<br /><br />Thanks for the summary!Anne Marie Cunninghamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05289974924032448531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4149957315810348152.post-66079501699798135992012-04-29T20:42:32.700+01:002012-04-29T20:42:32.700+01:00Thanks Simon, I'm hoping that some of the peop...Thanks Simon, I'm hoping that some of the people who put forward this view in Twitter will help explain. So watch this space!Anne Marie Cunninghamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05289974924032448531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4149957315810348152.post-1043152332127092672012-04-29T20:37:27.380+01:002012-04-29T20:37:27.380+01:00I'm interested in this too, because although I...I'm interested in this too, because although I can see the importance of separating activity within a complex and multi-faceted social space, I don't understand the why it is necessary to have a second account to do this. If there were no other way to control visibility/privacy, then fine, but there are plenty of tools in Facebook (pages, groups, lists) etc. Even in Google+ where there are circles, some people in my circles have two profiles. Why?Simon Woodhttp://simonwood.infonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4149957315810348152.post-13034451656304954892012-04-29T20:18:10.035+01:002012-04-29T20:18:10.035+01:00Ok... but suggesting that we make use of a space i...Ok... but suggesting that we make use of a space isn't the same as mandating that students use it surely? <br /><br />Yes, I've seen that article but had not read to the end. The thoughts of the student on trying to make sense of distributed comments etc fits with this comment by another student yesterday http://wishfulthinkinginmedicaleducation.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/so-students-how-do-you-use-facebook-for.html?showComment=1335624383145#c676330454007549465<br /><br />New challenges... new solutions!Anne Marie Cunninghamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05289974924032448531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4149957315810348152.post-67817773852703821192012-04-29T20:02:14.248+01:002012-04-29T20:02:14.248+01:00Hi Anne-Marie
Very interesting post/comments. As s...Hi Anne-Marie<br />Very interesting post/comments. As somebody who has studiously avoided FB in any kind of L+T situation (same reasons as those outlined by Alan, Cristina etc.), I've recently found myself having to use it as I'm involved in a couple of international collaborations where it's the preferred communication tool of the students (from UK, NZ, FR). For the purposes of these projects, where students who have never met (and never will meet) are collaborating on rapid-development film projects, it works particularly well as it's a space that's familiar to all of them - and because everything else about the project is new/strange/unfamiliar, it's definitely served a purpose. They have been able to contact one another quickly, and perform various tie-strengthening activities (as simple as liking one another's posts in some cases) that are already part of their every day online socialisation.<br />As the projects have developed and they've gained confidence they've moved away from FB to GoogleDocs/Twitter/Email - but I do think FB was valuable in the initial stages. It's about context I suppose, and acknowledging the fact that we can't please everybody. Some students prefer Twitter, some FB, others may even prefer the VLE (gasp! ;), but as long as we have these conversations out in the open, with our students, then issues around pros and cons of platforms/privacy become part of their broader learning around digital literacies and citizenship.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4149957315810348152.post-20121091761071945092012-04-29T19:38:58.762+01:002012-04-29T19:38:58.762+01:00Dear Anne Marie (Sorry don't know how to stori...Dear Anne Marie (Sorry don't know how to storify our earlier tweets)<br /><br />Read this BBC article with interest (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17811564) - essentially the Magic Middle are a group of non-celebrity or learned institution bloggers and tweeters who have amassed large followings due to the quality of their blogs/tweets. Their 'endorsements' are in high demand from companies due to the positive effect this has on their products or ideology. <br /><br />I wondered if it was likely in Social Network Academic Groups (SNAGs) whether a few individuals would adopt these rules which may be have a positive or negative effect on others learning. I then reflected on the active listeners or non-engagers in SNAGs. How would their learning be affected. Would they miss on on core material or discussion or just gain it in the fashion they always have done. Essentially will SNAGs benefit those whose learning needs have not been previously met or disadvantage those who (maybe quite rightly) don't feel they should have to 'socially' network in this way. <br /><br />All the best<br /><br />DamianDamian Rolandhttp://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/cardiovascular-sciences/people/dr-damian-rolandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4149957315810348152.post-10748330673642052752012-04-29T19:31:57.658+01:002012-04-29T19:31:57.658+01:00Hi Anne-Marie
Thanks for making that clear! The co...Hi Anne-Marie<br />Thanks for making that clear! The comment was responding to "If students use Facebook for social learning then should educators be there too?" <br /><br />You might also like this Wired article on a student's experience of MITx, and use of social platforms for student study groups.<br />http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/03/ff_aiclass/all/1Andrew Jacksonhttps://twitter.com/#!/ajax_63noreply@blogger.com